11 septembre 2001

[spartan44]

 

contre un mur en béton...

 

contre des poutres en acier, l'avion est pour moi déchiqueté et il y a des bouts qui doivent voler partout...

 

 

 

 

c'est du bon sens...

 

evidement faut pas voir des complots partout, mais je trouve ca plus sain de voir a cette echelle tout est complot... (attentat "terroriste", actions gouvernementale...)

 

on sait par l'histoire que l'oligarchie ne fait que ca, comploter.

 

et c'est pas parce que l'oligarchie complote que le 11 sept est forcement un complot de l'oligarchie, mais c'est les faits troublant de cet attentat qui l'indique.

 

je vais pas refaire une liste de tous les trucs chelous...

 

 

j'aimerai que les gens, comme cal_be, qui croient a la version officielle reagissent a ca :

 

 

 

Le terrorisme a changé de nature depuis que l'on sait que ce sont les gouvernements occidentaux, nos gouvernements!, qui sont derrière les plus gros événements terroristes mondiaux. Un coup pour accuser les communistes, un autre pour accuser les islamistes, le prochain devrait être le mauvais citoyen qui dénonce son gouvernement plutôt que de le soutenir dans son massacre de femmes, d'enfants, de père de famille quelque part sur la planète au nom de l'intérêt supérieur de la patrie en danger.

 

Le vrai danger terroriste du monde ce sont nos propres gouvernements et il est bon de le rappeler en remémorant l'histoire de quelques attentats et les conséquences qu'ils ont entrainés par la suite. A qui profitent-ils si ce n'est à nos gouvernements qui accentuent ainsi leur contrôle sur la population, aux marchands d'armes mondiaux qui prospèrent, aux banksters qui financent tout cela? L'histoire est pleine de ces attentats « false flag » dont le dernier spectaculaire en date fût le 11 septembre. Une opération réussie qui peut donner des idées à des gouvernements ayant du mal à maîtriser sa population et qui souhaitent en prendre le contrôle au travers de lois d'exceptions que seul lui permet un événement spectaculaire. C'est donc bien pourquoi les citoyens qui s'amusent à rappeler ces faits et à dénoncer leurs gouvernements sont des terroristes en puissance pour eux.

 

 

Justement, t'as déjà coupé quelque chose avec un couteau? Les poutres c'est pareil, un avion n'est pas solide il a été "coupé" par les poutres au moment de l'impact

Si il avait pris un mur de plein fouet effectivement il aurait explosé, un peu comme quand tu lances une tomate contre un mur

[spartan44]

 

 

Non mais ouvrez un peu les yeux, des débris il y en a partout du coté de la facade percutée et sur la trajectoire de l'avion de l'autre coté du bâtiment et aussi sur les flancs.

Le bâtiment fait tout de même 65 mètres de coté, et les plus grosses pièces qui n'ont pas été arrêtées par des poutres traversent toute la structure et ressortent à haute vitesse, c'est très visible sur la vidéo.

 

Regarde la vidéo ci-dessous, et ose me dire qu'il n'y a pas de débris ? Même remarque pour Sonysko.

Il n’est pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre...

 

 

Quant à ta vidéo, j'y jetterai un coup d'oeil plus tard.

 

 

Les débris ont été rajoutés en post production

[Invité §Jes257LV]

[Invité §she131PZ]

 

Justement, t'as déjà coupé quelque chose avec un couteau? Les poutres c'est pareil, un avion n'est pas solide il a été "coupé" par les poutres au moment de l'impact

Si il avait pris un mur de plein fouet effectivement il aurait explosé, un peu comme quand tu lances une tomate contre un mur

 

Très drôle de lire ceci Au Pentagone l'avion s'est-il explosé comme une tomate sur le mur renforcé ?

A oui mais j'oubliai c'était un modèle avec ailes pliables, réacteurs encastrables et homologué pour les passages de fenêtres et de portes ... c'est pour cela qu'il est ressortit de l'autre côté. A moins que ce ne sois pas juste un avion ...

[CaL_bE]

Très drôle de lire ceci Au Pentagone l'avion s'est-il explosé comme une tomate sur le mur renforcé ?

A oui mais j'oubliai c'était un modèle avec ailes pliables, réacteurs encastrables et homologué pour les passages de fenêtres et de portes ... c'est pour cela qu'il est ressortit de l'autre côté. A moins que ce ne sois pas juste un avion ...

 

Très drôle de lire ceci.

 

Tu peux me donner les détails de la constitution du mur renforcé ?

Parce qu'il a tout de même beaucoup de fenêtres ce mur.

Combien de mètre de béton et quel type de fondations faudrait-il pour qu'un avion s'y écrase comme une tomate sur un mur ?

 

Surement un missile déguisé en avion alors, tu fais quoi des nombreux témoins qui déclarent avoir vu un avion ?

[Invité §wrk515bx]

Il doit y avoir des milliers de vidéos de l'avion sur le pentagone, vu qu'il y a des milliers de caméra autour.

 

 

Ca doit pas être compliqué de poster une vidéo de cet avion [:hondapart's:9]

 

 

Bon sinon je veux bien admettre qu'il y a des avions qui se sont crachées sur les WTC, ce n'est pour moi qu'un détail de l'histoire.

 

 

 

mais ca ne change rien a ca :

 

Mais de toute façon, avion ou pas avion, c'est pour moi bien un complot du gouvernement americain contre ses citoyens et contre le monde "libre", pour renforcer leurs pouvoirs.

 

 

C'est le pearl harbor du 21eme siecle (qui a etudié Pearl Harbor comprendra )

 

 

 

C'est assez simple en fait, c'est a partir du moment ou il a compris que l'oligarchie joue pour elle, et pour l'intêret général.

 

 

Ca passe par la lecture de livre, ou le visionnage de documentaire.

 

 

Tu peux par exemple te documenter sur Pearl Harbor, ou tu decouvriras que le deverouillage des archives secretes a vraiment changé la version de l'histoire.

 

 

On passe de "attaque surprise et sans raison des japonais" qui pousse les americains dans la seconde guerre mondiale a "conséquences de l'embargo du japon, attaque prévue (via les codes radio secret japonais decrypté avant les attaques) et laissé faire pour traumatiser le peuple americain et le forcer dans la guerre". (les victimes auraient pu être éviter, mais il fallait un choc psychologique)

 

 

Ne parlons même pas du WTC7, qui s'est écroulé de la même manière que les deux tours qui se sont prises un avion, par hasard surement... hasard aussi qui fait que la BBC ait annoncé la chute de cette fameuse tour 20min avant qu'elle ai lieux ce fameux 11 septembre 2001... !

 

 

Bizarrement, des années après que cette information soit ressortie, la BBC a communiqué qu'elle n'avait plus aucune archivre du jour ou la plus grosse attaque terrroriste a eu lieu contre les USA

 

 

Le terrorisme a changé de nature depuis que l'on sait que ce sont les gouvernements occidentaux, nos gouvernements!, qui sont derrière les plus gros événements terroristes mondiaux. Un coup pour accuser les communistes, un autre pour accuser les islamistes, le prochain devrait être le mauvais citoyen qui dénonce son gouvernement plutôt que de le soutenir dans son massacre de femmes, d'enfants, de père de famille quelque part sur la planète au nom de l'intérêt supérieur de la patrie en danger.

 

Le vrai danger terroriste du monde ce sont nos propres gouvernements et il est bon de le rappeler en remémorant l'histoire de quelques attentats et les conséquences qu'ils ont entrainés par la suite. A qui profitent-ils si ce n'est à nos gouvernements qui accentuent ainsi leur contrôle sur la population, aux marchands d'armes mondiaux qui prospèrent, aux banksters qui financent tout cela? L'histoire est pleine de ces attentats « false flag » dont le dernier spectaculaire en date fût le 11 septembre. Une opération réussie qui peut donner des idées à des gouvernements ayant du mal à maîtriser sa population et qui souhaitent en prendre le contrôle au travers de lois d'exceptions que seul lui permet un événement spectaculaire. C'est donc bien pourquoi les citoyens qui s'amusent à rappeler ces faits et à dénoncer leurs gouvernements sont des terroristes en puissance pour eux.

 

 

 

t'es tu donné la peine de vérifié quelques "faits" qu'il balance histoire de voir si au moins c'était possible ?

 

 

Par ex le USS liberty ?

 

 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/I [...] SS_Liberty

 

L'incident du USS Liberty désigne une attaque opérée par l'armée israélienne pendant la guerre des Six Jours, le 8 juin 1967 sur l'USS Liberty, navire de l'US Navy destiné à collecter de l'information et équipé par la NSA. L'attaque a été menée par des avions et des bateaux torpilleurs israéliens et causa la mort de 34 soldats américains, en blessant au moins 171.

 

 

Alors, après une rapide lecture, il dit la vérité ou pas sur cette histoire ? qu'est ce qu'on peut tirer comme conclusion de ce genre de FAITS historiques ?

 

 

 

 

call_be, un commentaire sur la video ?

[Invité §Jes257LV]

[Invité §nyn781GE]

 

Je me demande qui je dois croire, toi avec ton brevet de 50 m nage libre et ton solide bon sens ou un mec qui â fait 8 ans d'études apres le bac sur la structure des matériaux.

 

J'ai pas tranché encore, faut voir.....

 

 

didier et ses sacralisations de source

 

tu sais que tu passes pour un con systématiquement car il n'y a rien de plus facile pour contredire un bac + que de trouver un bac + qui dit l'inverse... mais tu persiste..

[Invité §Jes257LV]

 

didier et ses sacralisations de source

 

tu sais que tu passes pour un con systématiquement car il n'y a rien de plus facile pour contredire un bac + que de trouver un bac + qui dit l'inverse... mais tu persiste..

Donc c'est pareil pour un type qui parle politique, merci de confirmer

[Invité §Son171cr]

Très drôle de lire ceci.

 

Tu peux me donner les détails de la constitution du mur renforcé ?

Parce qu'il a tout de même beaucoup de fenêtres ce mur.

Combien de mètre de béton et quel type de fondations faudrait-il pour qu'un avion s'y écrase comme une tomate sur un mur ?

 

Surement un missile déguisé en avion alors, tu fais quoi des nombreux témoins qui déclarent avoir vu un avion ?

Autant pour le reste, tu pourrais avoir des arguments et des preuves, autant là, avec toutes les caméras autour du batiment, pas une seule vidéo de l'avion ...

[SV_DIDIER]

 

Je me demande qui je dois croire, toi avec ton brevet de 50 m nage libre et ton solide bon sens ou un mec qui â fait 8 ans d'études apres le bac sur la structure des matériaux.

 

J'ai pas tranché encore, faut voir.....

 

 

didier et ses sacralisations de source

 

tu sais que tu passes pour un con systématiquement car il n'y a rien de plus facile pour contredire un bac + que de trouver un bac + qui dit l'inverse... mais tu persiste..

 

 

C'est un peu con ce que tu racontes non?

[SV_DIDIER]

Allez, rigolons un peu:

 

C’est une question idiote, parce que compte tenu du fait qu’il existe des preuves

visuelles et scientifiques directes qu’ils n’ont pas utilisé d’avions, spéculer sur leur

réflexion et leur planification n’a aucun sens.

 

Heu.....lesquelles ?

 

1) De vrais avions pilotés par des ’’kamikazes’’

2) De vrais avions mais sans pilote, c’est à dire contrôlés à distance.

Le problème avec le premier choix est évident et je pense que la plupart des gens se

rendent compte de l’absurdité et des difficultés énormes qu’impliquent un tel scénario

(l’incertitude quant à la détermination d’individus à aller jusqu’au bout, c’est à dire une mort

certaine, et donc le risque qu’ils abandonnent leur mission avant son terme, ou bien la

possibilité qu’ils décident de changer les plans à la dernière minute et choisissent d’aller

s’écraser ailleurs, ou bien encore le risque qu’ils ne parviennent tout simplement pas à

prendre le contrôle des appareils où s’avèrent incapables de leur faire exécuter des

figures particulièrement ardues et complexes etc), donc je ne vais pas entrer dans les

détails ici.

 

Bon, balayons l'incertitude du kamikaze, c'est ridicule quand on connait le nombre d’attentats suicide et tous les candidats prêts à passer dans un monde meilleurs. Sinon, la probabilité qu'ils aillent s'écraser ailleurs ....juste pour embêter ben laden, na ! C'est so cute.

 

La encore, pour être pilote moi même et utiliser un pilote automatique et encore plus connaitre des pilotes de lignes, ben...c'est juste une grosse connerie d'un blaireau qui n'y connait manifestement rien ce qui est assez dérangeant

 

Il est très facile d'apprendre à n'importe qui à diriger un avion en vol surtout un gros avion très stable comme un 767 et à aller se planter dans une grosse cible visible comme le nez au milieu de la figure.

 

Quand au figures particulièrement ardues, c'est à peu près celle que je fais effectuer à tous mes passagers n'ayant jamais foutu les pieds dans un cockpit, tourner, monter, descendre.

 

Bref, ça démontre juste que ton gazier parle d'un sujet qu'il ne connait pas et qu'il est incroyable au sens premier du terme.

 

Des commentaires ?

 

 

Comment un adulte peut se laisser avoir par ce genre de trucs, ça me dépasse.

 

Le mec, quatre phrases, quatre conneries....

 

 

Aucun commentaires ?

[berlinois]

Très drôle de lire ceci Au Pentagone l'avion s'est-il explosé comme une tomate sur le mur renforcé ?

A oui mais j'oubliai c'était un modèle avec ailes pliables, réacteurs encastrables et homologué pour les passages de fenêtres et de portes ... c'est pour cela qu'il est ressortit de l'autre côté. A moins que ce ne sois pas juste un avion ...

Vu que tu as l'air de t'y connaitre en armes (ben oui, si ce n'est pas un avion, c'est obligatoirement un missile non ?), donnes moi le modèle de missile utilisé.

 

Car pour avoir pu détruire un bâtiment comme le pentagone ce devait être un sacré missile, je dis bien un car aucun témoin n'a entendu plusieurs bruits mais bien un seul bruit de réacteur.

 

A ma connaissance, il n'existe pas de missile suffisant pour détruire d'un seul coup un pan de mur qui justement avait été renforcé peu de temps auparavant pour résister à des attentats du type Oklahama. Même un JDAM ne peut faire ce genre de dommage et on aurait de toute façon retrouver des restes sans compter qu'il aurait du y avoir un avion dans les airs et une explosion autrement plus impressionnante (cf. les vidéos de bombardements en Irak ou Afghanistan, elles sont assez équivoques).

 

Par contre, un avion pesant 100 tonnes à 800 km/h au moment de l'impact lui fera surement ce genre de dégâts.

 

Prouves moi par A+B quel type de missile a été utilisé et après on en rediscutera, d'ici là tout autre théorie n'est que foutaises.

[CaL_bE]

call_be, un commentaire sur la video ?

 

 

Je viens de la regarder, enfin survoler est plus juste.

Pour résumer, il énumère des attaques terroristes ou actions menées par des gouvernements pour accuser faussement d'autres parties.

 

depuis que l'on sait que ce sont les gouvernements occidentaux, nos gouvernements!, qui sont derrière les plus gros événements terroristes mondiaux

 

D'abord, je doute qu'il soir réellement prouvé que tous les faits énoncés soient bien des actes gouvernementaux.

Parce que pour lui c'est un fait établi, mais je suppose que tout le monde n'est pas d'accord sur ce point, me trompè-je ?

 

Mais comme j'ai survolé la vidéo, supposons que oui.

Est-ce pour autant que tout nouvel attentat serait obligatoirement manigancé par un gouvernement ? Il n'y a pas de véritables terroristes en somme ?

Et je suppose donc que les attentats à Madrid en 2004 et à Londres en 2005 sont aussi un complot des gouvernements UK, espagnol ou US ?

 

Pour conclure, ton opinion est clairement orientée, la mienne l'est beaucoup moins, et je pense aussi avoir de meilleures connaissances scientifiques et un meilleur sens physique que toi de par ma formation, notamment en résistance des matériaux.

Mais je te l'accorde, cela ne signifie pas que l'explication la plus plausible à mes yeux soit la bonne.

[Invité §Jul741RC]

Donc c'est pareil pour un type qui parle politique, merci de confirmer

 

ahhhbêeêêênaanaaaan les règles/jugements que Nyny applique aux autres... ne s'appliquent pas pour nyny, il est "hors cadre" !

[Invité §Jul741RC]

Autant pour le reste, tu pourrais avoir des arguments et des preuves, autant là, avec toutes les caméras autour du batiment, pas une seule vidéo de l'avion ...

 

hummm des caméras dirigées vers le ciel et qui suivraient gentiment les déplacements d'aéronefs qui volent à 800km/h [:jln:4]

 

tu ne penses pas que les cameras sont plutôt dirigées vers le siol pour surveiller la rue, les accès, etc...

[Invité §Jul741RC]

Très drôle de lire ceci Au Pentagone l'avion s'est-il explosé comme une tomate sur le mur renforcé ?

A oui mais j'oubliai c'était un modèle avec ailes pliables, réacteurs encastrables et homologué pour les passages de fenêtres et de portes ... c'est pour cela qu'il est ressortit de l'autre côté. A moins que ce ne sois pas juste un avion ...

 

tu arrives à comprendre que l'intérieur du bâtiment ne doit être constitué que de cloisonnements légers genre BA13, avec quelques murs porteurs certainement mais ce n'est pas un blockhaus, il doit y avoir des économies de poids sur des immeubles de ce genre, non ? et la structure métallique peut difficilement stopper net un avion de plusieurs centaines de tonnes qui vole à + de 800 km/h... mais je dois me fourvoyer quelque part...!

[Invité §Son171cr]

hummm des caméras dirigées vers le ciel et qui suivraient gentiment les déplacements d'aéronefs qui volent à 800km/h [:jln:4]

 

tu ne penses pas que les cameras sont plutôt dirigées vers le siol pour surveiller la rue, les accès, etc...

 

Je sais que tu es vieux, mais essaie de suivre, on ne parle pas du WTC, mais du Pentagone, l'objet ( missile ou avion ) devait être à quelques mètres du sol car l'immeuble mesure 25 mètres.

[CaL_bE]

Je sais que tu es vieux, mais essaie de suivre, on ne parle pas du WTC, mais du Pentagone, l'objet ( missile ou avion ) devait être à quelques mètres du sol car l'immeuble mesure 25 mètres.

 

 

Le manque de caméra c'est certainement pour s'épargner du boulot, vu qu'il n'y aurait de toute façon pas eu d'avion autant éviter d'avoir à bosser sur des hologrammes ou images de synthèses.

 

Par contre, tu fais quoi des témoignages des nombreux piétons et automobilistes qui ont vu l'avion ?

[Invité §Son171cr]

 

Le manque de caméra c'est certainement pour s'épargner du boulot, vu qu'il n'y aurait de toute façon pas eu d'avion autant éviter d'avoir à bosser sur des hologrammes ou images de synthèses.

 

Par contre, tu fais quoi des témoignages des nombreux piétons et automobilistes qui ont vu l'avion ?

Source

[CaL_bE]

Source

 

Je suppose que tu n'as jamais pris la peine de chercher ?

Quelques unes ci-dessous, Je me suis arrêté à la lettre D c'était un peu long.

 

MàJ : et une petite liste en français à la fin.

Il y a les liens vers les articles originaux (certains ne sont plus valides).

 

Abshire, Marc	Air Force Lt. Col. Marc Abshire, 40, a speechwriter for Air Force Secretary James Roche, was working on several speeches this morning when he felt the blast of the explosion at the Pentagon. His office is on the D ring, near the eighth corridor, he said. "It shot me back in my chair. There was a huge blast. I could feel the air shock wave of it," Abshire said. "I didn't know exactly what it was. It didn't rumble. It was more of a direct smack. I said, 'This isn't right. Something's wrong here.'" "We all went out in the hallway. People were yelling 'Evacuate! Evacuate!' And we found ourselves on the lawn and looking back on our building. It was very much a surrealistic sort of experience. It's just definitely not right to see smoke coming out of the Pentagon. It was a very strange sight to see." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Anderson, Steve	I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke. http://www.jmu.edu/alumni/tragedy%5Fresponse/read%5Fmessages.html
Anderson, Ted	Lt. Col. Ted Anderson : "We ran to the end of our building, turned left and saw nothing but huge, billowing black smoke, and a brilliant, brilliant explosion of fire." (...) One of the Pentagon's two fire trucks was parked only 50 feet from the crash site, and it was "totally engulfed in flames," Anderson says. Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one. (...) Back in the building again, Anderson said he began "screaming and hollering for people as secondary and third-order explosions started going off. One of them was a fire department car exploding-I think my right eardrum exploded at the same time, and it unequivocally scared the heck out of me." http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
Anlauf, Deb & Jeff	Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' " http://www.leadertelegram.com/specialreports/attack/storydetail.asp?ID=7
Battle	Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091201_news_dcscene.shtml
Bauer, Gary	Gary Bauer, a former Presidential candidate, happened to be driving into Washington, D.C. that morning, to a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn't moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. ... I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." massnews.com / Amy Contrada / December 2001 http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/dec%202001/1201bauer.htm
Bauer, Gary	"...came from behind us and banked to the right and went into the Pentagon." Interview with Warren Smith http://www.thecharlotteworld.com/30%20Mins%20With/gary%20bauer/garybauer.html
Beans, Michael	Anger and guilt still sear Lieutenant Colonel Michael Beans who shakes his head ruefully and asks himself why he survived: "Why you, not them? Who made that decision?" (...) Inside the Pentagon, the blast lifted Beans off the floor as he crossed a huge open office toward his desk. "You heard this huge concussion, then the room filled with this real bright light, just like everything was encompassed within this bright light," said Beans. "As soon as I hit the floor, all the lights went out, there was a small fire starting to burn." His friends were not so lucky. Not far away on the same floor, Beans' once familiar world had turned into a terrifying maze as well. Opening a door to the outer E-ring corridor, Beans saw waves of fire rolling towards him like surf on a beach. Turning back, he groped slowly back across the room on hands and knees. The sprinkler came on and that kept the smoke and heat down. But it was nervewracking and Beans was alone, listening as the building burned. "It was so quiet," he recalled. "There was no screaming, nobody saying anything, just nothing." He thought he might not make it out alive. He thought about his wife, his daughter and son, his 22 years in the army. "I remember taking a couple of breaths there, and I made up my mind: I just can't go out this way," he said. Suddenly out of the smoke a man ran by. "I tried to grab him, and I tried to yell at him," Beans said. But "he just disappeared into the smoke." Alone again, Beans crawled with his face to the floor. Then the carpet turned to wet tile, and he looked up and saw he was in a corridor. He ran and as the smoke cleared, he saw a guard. Beans discovered later that his head and forearms were burned. He now wears special flesh-colored compression sleeves on his arms. "These burns are going to heal, eventually," he said. But the memories "will be with me for the rest of my life." http://www.theosuobserver.com/main.cfm/include/smdetail/synid/54846.html
Begala, Paul	Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion near the Pentagon. "It was a huge fireball, a huge, orange fireball," he said in an interview on his mobile phone. He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. AP, Washington, 9/12/2001 11:45:33 PM http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Bell, Mickey	Mickey Bell : The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building, narrowly missing the Singleton Electric trailer and the on-site foreman, Mickey Bell. Bell had just left the trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton's headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much. The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. During Bell's close call, other Singleton workers, including sub-foreman Greg Cobaugh, were doing other work on the first and third floors. The blast wasn't very loud to them. They were talking about reports that two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, New York - not considering the noise they heard could be a similar attack. http://www.necanet.org/whats_new/report.cfm?ID=1003
Benedetto, Richard	Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parrallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.(...) I didn't see the impact. (...) The sound itself sounded more like a thud rather than a bomb (...) rather than a loud bomb explosion it sounded muffled, heavy, very deep. I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight. The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post. (Video) high bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto2.ram low bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto.ram
Biggert, Judy	Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane. 'There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,' she said. 'It smelled like it was still burning.'
Birdwell, Brian	LTC Brian Birdwell. He was just heading back down the hall to his office when the building exploded in front of him. The flash fire was immediate and the smoke was thick. The blast had thrown him down, giving him a concussion. He wanted to head down the hall toward the A ring...but because he couldn't see anything he had no idea which way to go and he didn't want to head in the wrong direction. (...) Once they stabilized Brian, they transferred him to George Washington Hospital where...the best, cutting edge burn doctor in the U.S. The doctor told him that had he not gone to Georgetown first, he probably would not have survived because of the jet fuel in his lungs. http://www.aog.usma.edu/Class/1961/BirdwellLuncheon.htm
Birdwell, Brian	Down the hall from Yates, Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell, 40, had been at his desk in Room 2E486 since 6:30 a.m. (...) Birdwell walked out to the men's room in corridor 4, a move that saved his life. He had just taken three or four steps out of the bathroom when the building was rocked. "Bomb!" the Gulf War vet immediately thought as he was knocked down. When he stood up, he realized he was on fire. "Jesus, I'm coming to see you" http://www.hjpa.org/morenews.html
Boger, Sean	Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." The crew, Boger and Spc. Jacqueline Kidd, air traffic controller and training supervisor, prepared for President George W. Bush to arrive from Florida around 12:30 p.m. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_46/local_news/12049-1.html
Bouchoux, Donald R.	Donald R. Bouchoux, 53, a retired Naval officer, a Great Falls resident, a Vietnam veteran and former commanding officer of a Navy fighter squadron, was driving west from Tysons Corner to the Pentagon for a 10am meeting. He wrote: At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards [should be more than 150 yards from the impact] in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car. Washington Post, Sept. 20, 2001 http://web.lexis-nexis.com...
Bowman, John	John Bowman, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel and a contractor, was in his office in Corridor Two near the main entrance to the south parking lot. "Everything was calm,' Bowman said. "Most people knew it was a bomb. Everyone evacuated smartly. We have a good sprinkling of military people who have been shot at." http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_37/local_news/10380-1.html
Braman, Chris	Staff Sgt. Chris Braman : The lawn was littered with twisted pieces of aluminum. He saw one chunk painted with the letter ``A,'' another with a ``C.'' It didn't occur to Braman what the letters signified until a man in the crowd stooped to pick up one of the smaller metal shards. He examined it for a moment, then announced: ``This was a jet.''
Bright, Mark	Defense Protective Service officers were the first on the scene of the terrorist attack. One, Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area. http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/hendersonhall/6_39/local_news/10797-1.html
Brown, Ervin	At the Pentagon, employees had heard about or seen footage of the World Trade Centre attack when they felt their own building shake. Ervin Brown, who works at the Pentagon, said he saw pieces of what appeared to be small aircraft on the ground, and the part of the building by the heliport had collapsed.
Brown, Rich	Pentagon staff raced along a wooden pathway opposite the Pentagon building, all heading towards bridges that would take them across the Potomac River. Grown men ran at full pace. Rich Brown was sitting at his desk and "there was just a huge sound that shook the building for a second or two". "I don't know what's happened. I assume it's a co-ordinated terrorist attack." http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968648.html
Burgess, Lisa	Lisa Burgess, a reporter for the Army newspaper Stars and Stripes, said she was walking in a corridor near the blast site and was thrown to the ground by the force of the blast. http://www.neurosis.org...
Burgess, Lisa	Lisa Burgess : Stars and Stripes reporter Lisa Burgess was walking on the Pentagon's innermost corridor, across the courtyard, when the incident happened. "I heard two loud booms - one large, one smaller, and the shock wave threw me against the wall," she said.Burgess, reporting by telephone from the scene at about 4 p.m., said that five hours after the blast, still no one was able to get into the building. After the first casualties were removed, no one was brought out of the building, either dead or alive. http://www.pstripes.com/01/sep01/ed091201i.html
Campo	It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane, Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here." http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Cissell, James R.	As former Cincinnatian James R. Cissell sat in traffic on a Virginia interstate by the Pentagon Tuesday morning, he saw the blur of a commercial jet and wondered why it was flying so low. ''Right about the time it was crossing over the highway, it kind of dawned on me what was happening,'' said Cissell, son of Hamilton County Clerk of Courts Jim Cissell. In the next blink of an eye, he realized he had a front-row seat to history, as the plane plowed into the Pentagon, sending a fireball exploding into the air and scattering debris - including a tire rim suspected of belonging to the airplane - past his car. (...) In the next seconds dozens of things flashed through his mind. ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.'' http://www.cincypost.com/attack/cissel091201.html
Cleveland, Allen	Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. "I thought, 'There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,' " Before he could process that thought, he saw "a huge mushroom cloud. A lady staThe lady next to me was in absolute hysterics."" . . a silver pasenger jet, mid sized" http://mfile.akamai.com/920/rm/thepost.download.akamai.com/920/nation/091101-5s.ram
Cleveland, Allen	Soon after the crash (Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane (Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield. He said that he saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary RD in Springfield, VA. and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it. I think this was also a reason for the false threat of another plane about to crash which caused rescuers to have to evacuate for a short time after the initial crash. I have done my research onthis and according to time magazine it took 24 minutes before Norad was supposedly notified about this particuliar jet and fighters were scrambling to intercept at that time. Isn't it odd how there is Not a single mention of this aircraft in ANY of the articles written about this crash? Also if you had not noticed... There is not a single picture or live footage of the actual jet prior to its crash at the Pentagon. Nor is there any of the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. But if Anyone who rides the metro-rail knows, there are plenty of Video cameras all around National airport at the parking Garages and the high level security buildings found all around Crystal city. (3 of which I have personally found pointed directly towards crystal city which would have given a great line of site shot of that jet prior to the crash as well as any other plane which might have been following it. I personally believe that the government new full well that this was about to happen and they are hiding something a lot bigger than they are willing to let out. I was interviewed at Washingtonpost.com and gave them my full story, but they did not print it as I have told you. I also find it interesting that one of the planes engines in the pennsylvania crash was supposedly found 5 miles prior to the crash site (This information I'm unsure of). The only thing that I'm aware of that might cause that would be a heat seeking missle. A weapon which I am pretty familiar with form Ord.training. I'm not saying that the government new exactly what was about to happen, but I do believe that they are definitely hiding something here. Many of my friends in intelligence have said the same. I work in a Gov. building in DC., but my heart is right there with you and your team. I hope you and those who served with you are doing well. Take care. http://www.spooky8.com/reviews.htm
Cook, Scott P.	[we didn't know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, or where it had hit. Later, we were told that] it was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building, turned sharply over the Capitol, ran past the White House and the Washington Monument, up the river to Rosslyn, then dropped to treetop level and ran down Washington Boulevard to the Pentagon (...) As we watched the black plume gather strength, less than a minute after the explosion, we saw an odd sight that no one else has yet commented on. Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. It was coming from an odd direction (planes don't go east-west in the area), and it was descending at a much steeper angle than most aircraft. Trailing a thin, diffuse black trail from its engines, the plane reached the Pentagon at a low altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just north of the plume, and headed straight for the White House. All the while, I was sort of talking at it: "Who the hell are you? Where are you going? You're not headed for downtown!" Ray and Verle watched it with me, and I was convinced it was another attack. But right over the tidal basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed rapidly. Soon it was gone, leaving only the thin black trail. http://www.clothmonkey.com/91101.htm
Corley	"It was striking to me how little of the building was involved in the fire," said Dr. Corley, who has reviewed the Pentagon report. The fire, he said, "didn't spread and and trap other people in the building. "While 125 Pentagon workers and 59 passengers and crew members on the plane died, few if any of the workers who died were from outside the immediate impact zone." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/05/nyregion/05TOWE.html
Correa, Victor	LTC Victor Correa work at the Pentagon. (...) LTC Victor Correa's office, what was the Army's Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel, now the Army G-1, was in the path of the Boeing 757 that crashed into the Pentagon on a sunny fall morning. He was walking over to talk to a co-worker in the next cubicle when he was knocked down by the impact. "I saw a fireball come over my head," said Correa, an Active Guard Reservist now assigned to Joint Chiefs of Staff, J-5. "The fireball was coming like a wind-cloud of smoke trailing it. I also noticed to my right the windows going out and coming back in. The fireball came in and out quick - the speed of lightning. As it went back, it left a cloud of smoke and started dropping. At that time the fire system went up." Being knocked down turned out to be a life-saver. (...) "We thought it was some kind of explosion. That somehow someone got in here and planted bombs because we saw these holes." http://www.army.mil/usar/news/2002/09-11anniv/herotellsall.html
Creed, Dan	He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," Creed recalls. http://www.ahwatukee.com/afn/community/articles/020906a.html
Damoose	Damoose said the worst part was leaving the Pentagon and walking along Fort Meyer Drive, a bike trail, "you could see pieces of the plane." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Dave	Near the Lincoln Memorial, Dave heard two booms, which sounded like the artillery salutes on the Mall on the Fourth of July, he said. It was likely the noise from a secondary blast at the Pentagon - http://www.gridlockmag.com/911/
Day Wayne T.	For one employee with Wedge One's mechanical subcontractor John J. Kirlin Inc., Rockville MD, "lucky" is an understatement. "We had one guy who was standing, looking out the window and saw the plane when it was coming in. He was in front of one of the blast-resistant windows," says Kirlin President Wayne T. Day, who believes the window structure saved the man's life. According to Matt Hahr, Kirlin's senior project manager at the Pentagon, the employee "was thrown about 80 ft down the hall through the air. As he was traveling through the air, he says the ceiling was coming down from the concussion. He got thrown into a closet, the door slammed shut and the fireball went past him," recounts Hahr. "Jet fuel was on him and it irritated his eyes, but he didn't get burned. Then the fireball blew over and the sprinklers came on, and he was able to crawl out of the closet and get out of the building through the courtyard." http://www.designbuildmag.com/oct2001/pentagon1001.asp
DeChiaro, Steve	Instead of following the streams of people away from the Pentagon, Steve DeChiaro ran toward the smoke. As he reached the west side of the building he saw a light post bent in half. "But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing." He followed the emergency crews that had just arrived. He saw people hanging out of windows and others crawling from the demolished area. "These people were covered in what I thought was powder - I don't know anything about medicine or first aid, I'm an engineer - but it looked like powder," DeChiaro said. "Only later did I find out that it was their skin." Civilians and soldiers joined emergency crews who were rushing inside to pull out anyone they could. But shortly after 10 a.m. police yelled at people to get back. "Just as we're about to open the door, they start screaming, 'There's another inbound plane', " DeChiaro said. "At that moment, your thoughts are: 'I go in the building, I get killed, then I'm no help to anybody.' In hindsight, I think we should have gone back in that building." For nearly 15 minutes, they stood watching the Pentagon burn and periodically checked the sky for another plane. That plane never reached Washington but fell, instead, in rural Pennsylvania. Teams of two and three eventually were sent back in to find more victims. But as the day grew longer, the flow of the injured stopped. http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/america_at_war/article/0,1426,MCA_945_1300676,00.html
Defina	"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExclusive/Exclusive_11_01_01/exclusive_11.01.01.asp
DiPaula, Michael	Michael DiPaula 41, project coordinator Pentagon Renovation Team - He left a meeting in the Pentagon just minutes before the crash, looking for an electrician who didn't show, in a construction trailer less than 75 feet away. "Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. 'It sounded like a missile,' DiPaula recalls . . . Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing, but eventually crawled from the flaming debris and the shroud of black smoke unscathed. http://www.sunspot.net/search/bal-archive-1990.htmlstory (killtown)
Dobbs, Mike	Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091201_news_dcscene.shtml
Dobbs, Mike	"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. ... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Sept. 13, 2001 - Philip Dine http://web.lexisnexis.com ... http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/dobbs.txt

 

[h4]Extraits de Guillaume Dasquié & Jean Guisnel, L’Effroyable mensonge. Thèse et foutaises sur les attentats du 11 septembre, La Découverte, 2002.[/h4]

Pour nous forger une opinion, nous avons réalisé le travail soigneusement évité par l’auteur de L’effroyable imposture (Thierry Meyssan – NDLR) : une prise de contact directe et personnelle avec des témoins, sans intermédiaire, c’est-à-dire des entretiens avec les personnes les plus proches de l’origine de l’information.

 

Premier constat : nous n’avons identifié aucune personne, s’exprimant en son nom propre ou sous le sceau de l’anonymat, qui déclare avoir vu un missile ou tout autre explosif provoquer la déflagration contre la façade du Pentagone. Second constat : nous avons pu constituer une première liste de témoins oculaires affirmant qu’un Boeing s’est bien précipité contre le Pentagone ce 11 septembre au matin. Nos contacts personnels à Washington, la consultation de la presse locale écrite et télévisée des 11 et 12 septembre ont permis en l’espace de trois jours de répertorier dix-huit personnes, vivant dans la région d’Arlington ou à Washington, et facilement joignables en consultant les annuaires locaux. Il s’agit des personnes suivantes, qui décrivent toutes, avec de nombreuses similitudes, la trajectoire de l’avion avant l’impact contre le Pentagone :

 

- Alfred Regnery, arrivé en voiture depuis le pont sur la rivière Potomac ;

- Allen Cleveland, piéton sortant du métro ;

- D. S. Khavkin : elle et son mari vivent au huitième étage d’un immeuble qui fait face au Pentagone ; depuis leur balcon, ils ont assisté aux derniers instants du vol du Boeing sur le bâtiment ;

- Paul Coleridge, qui se trouvait sur le Wilson Bridge quand il a vu l’avion ;

- Pam Bradley, automobiliste ;

- Joel Sucherman, journaliste, piéton ;

- Fred Gaskins, automobiliste ;

- Aydan Kizildrgli, piéton ;

- Omar Campo, piéton, employé à l’entretien des pelouses, a vu l’avion passer au-dessus de sa tête et heurter le Pentagone ;

- Afework Ragos, automobiliste, programmateur informatique ;

- Mike Walter, piéton ;

- Tim Timmerman, automobiliste et pilote de ligne ;

- Steve Eiden, automobiliste ;

- Elaine McCusker, automobiliste, employée à l’Université de Washington ;

- Stephen McGraw, passager en voiture ;

- Steve Anderson, du journal USA Today, a assisté aux derniers instants du vol 77 depuis son bureau, au dix-neuvième étage d’une tour à Arlington ;

- James Robbins, journaliste à National Review.

 

 

John 0'Keefe fait partie de ceux-là. Ce jeune homme de vingt-six ans travaille dans l’entreprise de presse Legal Times, et coordonne le travail éditorial d’une partie des titres publiés par la société, en particulier le bimensuel Influence. Ce dernier suit l’actualité du lobbying, c’est-à-dire des groupes de pression industriels et des cabinets qui les représentent. Il consacre régulièrement des articles d’enquête aux liens entre l’administration Bush et les groupes de pression de l’industrie du pétrole ou du tabac – du vrai journalisme d’investigation, sans accusations à l’emporte-pièce et ciselé. Donc, a priori, rien qui place John O’Keefe au nombre des représentants zélés du parti républicain, de l’armée ou du complexe militaro-industriel. John 0'Keefe vit dans la ville d’Alexandria, dans l’État de Virginie, à une quinzaine de minutes en voiture d’Arlington, près de laquelle il passe chaque matin et chaque soir pour se rendre à son bureau, situé un peu plus loin, dans le quartier nord-ouest de Washington, sur M Street.

 

Voici le témoignage écrit et signé qu’il nous a livré : « Ce matin-là, comme d’habitude, je me préparais pour aller travailler tout en écoutant la radio. Peu avant 9 heures, l’animateur à la radio a annoncé qu’un avion venait de s’écraser sur le World Trade Center. À cet instant, comme beaucoup de gens je crois, j’ai d’abord cru qu’il s’agissait d’un petit appareil [de la catégorie des avions d’affaires privés très répandus aux États- Unis], mais j’ai éteint la radio pour allumer la télé sur l’émission Good Morning America [la grande émission d’information du matin diffusée sur ABC News], où j’ai découvert ce qui se passait.

 

« Je continuais à m’habiller tout en regardant la télé et là j’ai vu l’avion toucher la seconde tour. Je me souviens avoir eu le souffle coupé par le spectacle de l’explosion. L’autre chose dont je me souviens c’est que le téléphone a sonné à cet instant ; c’était une collègue, qui était au travail et s’inquiétait : “Penses-tu que nous sommes en sécurité ici ?” m’a-t-elle demandé. Je lui ai assuré que nous l’étions, lui expliquant que ça ne concernait que New York. Nous avons parlé un court instant, puis je lui ai dit que je partais pour venir au bureau. Il était 9 h 20.

 

« J’habite à environ dix-quinze minutes du Pentagone, à Alexandria, et dans mes navettes quotidiennes pour aller travailler je dois passer près de la façade ouest du bâtiment. La circulation était très ralentie sur l’autoroute ce matin-là, peut-être parce que tout le monde écoutait la radio. Pour ma part, j’écoutais la radio d’information continue WTOP. J’ai décidé de quitter l’autoroute et d’emprunter une longue bretelle menant à une route qui me permettait de contourner le Pentagone. Puis, je me souviens que je me suis arrêté à un stop. Je venais juste d’entendre à la radio que le National Airport [le Reagan National Airport, aéroport pour les lignes régulières, situé à proximité du Pentagone] venait de fermer au trafic aérien, sauf pour les vols en cours d’arrivée.

 

« Là, soudain, arrivant de mon côté gauche – j’ignore si je l’ai d’abord vu ou entendu – un avion de couleur argentée est passé [les appareils des lignes American Airlines se distinguent aisément à la partie de leur carlingue recouverte d’une peinture argentée]. Je suis habitué à voir des avions volé à basse altitude dans cette zone, car nous sommes vraiment à un mile ou deux

[spartan44]

Très drôle de lire ceci Au Pentagone l'avion s'est-il explosé comme une tomate sur le mur renforcé ?

A oui mais j'oubliai c'était un modèle avec ailes pliables, réacteurs encastrables et homologué pour les passages de fenêtres et de portes ... c'est pour cela qu'il est ressortit de l'autre côté. A moins que ce ne sois pas juste un avion ...

 

 

Disons qu'un avion à la puissance maximale est un peu un missile, les ailes se sont déchiquetées instantanément, c'est super léger un avion, pour des raisons évidentes...

 

Le truc c'est un peu comme quand tu roules une feuille de papier, si tu appuyes sur les deux faces opposées (où il y a les ronds) la feuille sera plus résistante qu'à l'origine

C'est un peu le même principe pour l'avion, l'énergie cinétique associée avec la forme en tube a facilité la pénétration

 

Ah oui et une question, si ce n'était pas un avion où est donc passé celui qui est censé s'être écrasé sur le pentagone Que sont devenus les passagers?

[spartan44]

Autant pour le reste, tu pourrais avoir des arguments et des preuves, autant là, avec toutes les caméras autour du batiment, pas une seule vidéo de l'avion ...

 

 

Pas vraiment simple d'avoir une image nette d'un boeing à 10m du sol et volant à 850 kmh Sans compter les témoins...

 

Et à toi aussi du coup je pose la question:Où est passé le vol 77

[spartan44]

 

Aucun commentaires ?

 

 

Disons que sur le coup il n'a trouvé aucune vidéo d'un "expert" en aéronautique du coup il n'a pas beaucoup d'arguments

[Invité §she131PZ]

Je suppose que tu n'as jamais pris la peine de chercher ?

Quelques unes ci-dessous, Je me suis arrêté à la lettre D c'était un peu long.

 

MàJ : et une petite liste en français à la fin.

Il y a les liens vers les articles originaux (certains ne sont plus valides).

 

Abshire, Marc	Air Force Lt. Col. Marc Abshire, 40, a speechwriter for Air Force Secretary James Roche, was working on several speeches this morning when he felt the blast of the explosion at the Pentagon. His office is on the D ring, near the eighth corridor, he said. "It shot me back in my chair. There was a huge blast. I could feel the air shock wave of it," Abshire said. "I didn't know exactly what it was. It didn't rumble. It was more of a direct smack. I said, 'This isn't right. Something's wrong here.'" "We all went out in the hallway. People were yelling 'Evacuate! Evacuate!' And we found ourselves on the lawn and looking back on our building. It was very much a surrealistic sort of experience. It's just definitely not right to see smoke coming out of the Pentagon. It was a very strange sight to see." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Anderson, Steve	I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke. http://www.jmu.edu/alumni/tragedy%5Fresponse/read%5Fmessages.html
Anderson, Ted	Lt. Col. Ted Anderson : "We ran to the end of our building, turned left and saw nothing but huge, billowing black smoke, and a brilliant, brilliant explosion of fire." (...) One of the Pentagon's two fire trucks was parked only 50 feet from the crash site, and it was "totally engulfed in flames," Anderson says. Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one. (...) Back in the building again, Anderson said he began "screaming and hollering for people as secondary and third-order explosions started going off. One of them was a fire department car exploding-I think my right eardrum exploded at the same time, and it unequivocally scared the heck out of me." http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
Anlauf, Deb & Jeff	Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' " http://www.leadertelegram.com/specialreports/attack/storydetail.asp?ID=7
Battle	Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091201_news_dcscene.shtml
Bauer, Gary	Gary Bauer, a former Presidential candidate, happened to be driving into Washington, D.C. that morning, to a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn't moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. ... I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." massnews.com / Amy Contrada / December 2001 http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/dec%202001/1201bauer.htm
Bauer, Gary	"...came from behind us and banked to the right and went into the Pentagon." Interview with Warren Smith http://www.thecharlotteworld.com/30%20Mins%20With/gary%20bauer/garybauer.html
Beans, Michael	Anger and guilt still sear Lieutenant Colonel Michael Beans who shakes his head ruefully and asks himself why he survived: "Why you, not them? Who made that decision?" (...) Inside the Pentagon, the blast lifted Beans off the floor as he crossed a huge open office toward his desk. "You heard this huge concussion, then the room filled with this real bright light, just like everything was encompassed within this bright light," said Beans. "As soon as I hit the floor, all the lights went out, there was a small fire starting to burn." His friends were not so lucky. Not far away on the same floor, Beans' once familiar world had turned into a terrifying maze as well. Opening a door to the outer E-ring corridor, Beans saw waves of fire rolling towards him like surf on a beach. Turning back, he groped slowly back across the room on hands and knees. The sprinkler came on and that kept the smoke and heat down. But it was nervewracking and Beans was alone, listening as the building burned. "It was so quiet," he recalled. "There was no screaming, nobody saying anything, just nothing." He thought he might not make it out alive. He thought about his wife, his daughter and son, his 22 years in the army. "I remember taking a couple of breaths there, and I made up my mind: I just can't go out this way," he said. Suddenly out of the smoke a man ran by. "I tried to grab him, and I tried to yell at him," Beans said. But "he just disappeared into the smoke." Alone again, Beans crawled with his face to the floor. Then the carpet turned to wet tile, and he looked up and saw he was in a corridor. He ran and as the smoke cleared, he saw a guard. Beans discovered later that his head and forearms were burned. He now wears special flesh-colored compression sleeves on his arms. "These burns are going to heal, eventually," he said. But the memories "will be with me for the rest of my life." http://www.theosuobserver.com/main.cfm/include/smdetail/synid/54846.html
Begala, Paul	Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion near the Pentagon. "It was a huge fireball, a huge, orange fireball," he said in an interview on his mobile phone. He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. AP, Washington, 9/12/2001 11:45:33 PM http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Bell, Mickey	Mickey Bell : The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building, narrowly missing the Singleton Electric trailer and the on-site foreman, Mickey Bell. Bell had just left the trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton's headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much. The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. During Bell's close call, other Singleton workers, including sub-foreman Greg Cobaugh, were doing other work on the first and third floors. The blast wasn't very loud to them. They were talking about reports that two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, New York - not considering the noise they heard could be a similar attack. http://www.necanet.org/whats_new/report.cfm?ID=1003
Benedetto, Richard	Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parrallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.(...) I didn't see the impact. (...) The sound itself sounded more like a thud rather than a bomb (...) rather than a loud bomb explosion it sounded muffled, heavy, very deep. I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight. The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post. (Video) high bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto2.ram low bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto.ram
Biggert, Judy	Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane. 'There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,' she said. 'It smelled like it was still burning.'
Birdwell, Brian	LTC Brian Birdwell. He was just heading back down the hall to his office when the building exploded in front of him. The flash fire was immediate and the smoke was thick. The blast had thrown him down, giving him a concussion. He wanted to head down the hall toward the A ring...but because he couldn't see anything he had no idea which way to go and he didn't want to head in the wrong direction. (...) Once they stabilized Brian, they transferred him to George Washington Hospital where...the best, cutting edge burn doctor in the U.S. The doctor told him that had he not gone to Georgetown first, he probably would not have survived because of the jet fuel in his lungs. http://www.aog.usma.edu/Class/1961/BirdwellLuncheon.htm
Birdwell, Brian	Down the hall from Yates, Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell, 40, had been at his desk in Room 2E486 since 6:30 a.m. (...) Birdwell walked out to the men's room in corridor 4, a move that saved his life. He had just taken three or four steps out of the bathroom when the building was rocked. "Bomb!" the Gulf War vet immediately thought as he was knocked down. When he stood up, he realized he was on fire. "Jesus, I'm coming to see you" http://www.hjpa.org/morenews.html
Boger, Sean	Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." The crew, Boger and Spc. Jacqueline Kidd, air traffic controller and training supervisor, prepared for President George W. Bush to arrive from Florida around 12:30 p.m. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_46/local_news/12049-1.html
Bouchoux, Donald R.	Donald R. Bouchoux, 53, a retired Naval officer, a Great Falls resident, a Vietnam veteran and former commanding officer of a Navy fighter squadron, was driving west from Tysons Corner to the Pentagon for a 10am meeting. He wrote: At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards [should be more than 150 yards from the impact] in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car. Washington Post, Sept. 20, 2001 http://web.lexis-nexis.com...
Bowman, John	John Bowman, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel and a contractor, was in his office in Corridor Two near the main entrance to the south parking lot. "Everything was calm,' Bowman said. "Most people knew it was a bomb. Everyone evacuated smartly. We have a good sprinkling of military people who have been shot at." http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_37/local_news/10380-1.html
Braman, Chris	Staff Sgt. Chris Braman : The lawn was littered with twisted pieces of aluminum. He saw one chunk painted with the letter ``A,'' another with a ``C.'' It didn't occur to Braman what the letters signified until a man in the crowd stooped to pick up one of the smaller metal shards. He examined it for a moment, then announced: ``This was a jet.''
Bright, Mark	Defense Protective Service officers were the first on the scene of the terrorist attack. One, Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area. http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/hendersonhall/6_39/local_news/10797-1.html
Brown, Ervin	At the Pentagon, employees had heard about or seen footage of the World Trade Centre attack when they felt their own building shake. Ervin Brown, who works at the Pentagon, said he saw pieces of what appeared to be small aircraft on the ground, and the part of the building by the heliport had collapsed.
Brown, Rich	Pentagon staff raced along a wooden pathway opposite the Pentagon building, all heading towards bridges that would take them across the Potomac River. Grown men ran at full pace. Rich Brown was sitting at his desk and "there was just a huge sound that shook the building for a second or two". "I don't know what's happened. I assume it's a co-ordinated terrorist attack." http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968648.html
Burgess, Lisa	Lisa Burgess, a reporter for the Army newspaper Stars and Stripes, said she was walking in a corridor near the blast site and was thrown to the ground by the force of the blast. http://www.neurosis.org...
Burgess, Lisa	Lisa Burgess : Stars and Stripes reporter Lisa Burgess was walking on the Pentagon's innermost corridor, across the courtyard, when the incident happened. "I heard two loud booms - one large, one smaller, and the shock wave threw me against the wall," she said.Burgess, reporting by telephone from the scene at about 4 p.m., said that five hours after the blast, still no one was able to get into the building. After the first casualties were removed, no one was brought out of the building, either dead or alive. http://www.pstripes.com/01/sep01/ed091201i.html
Campo	It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane, Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here." http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Cissell, James R.	As former Cincinnatian James R. Cissell sat in traffic on a Virginia interstate by the Pentagon Tuesday morning, he saw the blur of a commercial jet and wondered why it was flying so low. ''Right about the time it was crossing over the highway, it kind of dawned on me what was happening,'' said Cissell, son of Hamilton County Clerk of Courts Jim Cissell. In the next blink of an eye, he realized he had a front-row seat to history, as the plane plowed into the Pentagon, sending a fireball exploding into the air and scattering debris - including a tire rim suspected of belonging to the airplane - past his car. (...) In the next seconds dozens of things flashed through his mind. ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.'' http://www.cincypost.com/attack/cissel091201.html
Cleveland, Allen	Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. "I thought, 'There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,' " Before he could process that thought, he saw "a huge mushroom cloud. A lady staThe lady next to me was in absolute hysterics."" . . a silver pasenger jet, mid sized" http://mfile.akamai.com/920/rm/thepost.download.akamai.com/920/nation/091101-5s.ram
Cleveland, Allen	Soon after the crash (Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane (Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield. He said that he saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary RD in Springfield, VA. and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it. I think this was also a reason for the false threat of another plane about to crash which caused rescuers to have to evacuate for a short time after the initial crash. I have done my research onthis and according to time magazine it took 24 minutes before Norad was supposedly notified about this particuliar jet and fighters were scrambling to intercept at that time. Isn't it odd how there is Not a single mention of this aircraft in ANY of the articles written about this crash? Also if you had not noticed... There is not a single picture or live footage of the actual jet prior to its crash at the Pentagon. Nor is there any of the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. But if Anyone who rides the metro-rail knows, there are plenty of Video cameras all around National airport at the parking Garages and the high level security buildings found all around Crystal city. (3 of which I have personally found pointed directly towards crystal city which would have given a great line of site shot of that jet prior to the crash as well as any other plane which might have been following it. I personally believe that the government new full well that this was about to happen and they are hiding something a lot bigger than they are willing to let out. I was interviewed at Washingtonpost.com and gave them my full story, but they did not print it as I have told you. I also find it interesting that one of the planes engines in the pennsylvania crash was supposedly found 5 miles prior to the crash site (This information I'm unsure of). The only thing that I'm aware of that might cause that would be a heat seeking missle. A weapon which I am pretty familiar with form Ord.training. I'm not saying that the government new exactly what was about to happen, but I do believe that they are definitely hiding something here. Many of my friends in intelligence have said the same. I work in a Gov. building in DC., but my heart is right there with you and your team. I hope you and those who served with you are doing well. Take care. http://www.spooky8.com/reviews.htm
Cook, Scott P.	[we didn't know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, or where it had hit. Later, we were told that] it was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building, turned sharply over the Capitol, ran past the White House and the Washington Monument, up the river to Rosslyn, then dropped to treetop level and ran down Washington Boulevard to the Pentagon (...) As we watched the black plume gather strength, less than a minute after the explosion, we saw an odd sight that no one else has yet commented on. Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. It was coming from an odd direction (planes don't go east-west in the area), and it was descending at a much steeper angle than most aircraft. Trailing a thin, diffuse black trail from its engines, the plane reached the Pentagon at a low altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just north of the plume, and headed straight for the White House. All the while, I was sort of talking at it: "Who the hell are you? Where are you going? You're not headed for downtown!" Ray and Verle watched it with me, and I was convinced it was another attack. But right over the tidal basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed rapidly. Soon it was gone, leaving only the thin black trail. http://www.clothmonkey.com/91101.htm
Corley	"It was striking to me how little of the building was involved in the fire," said Dr. Corley, who has reviewed the Pentagon report. The fire, he said, "didn't spread and and trap other people in the building. "While 125 Pentagon workers and 59 passengers and crew members on the plane died, few if any of the workers who died were from outside the immediate impact zone." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/05/nyregion/05TOWE.html
Correa, Victor	LTC Victor Correa work at the Pentagon. (...) LTC Victor Correa's office, what was the Army's Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel, now the Army G-1, was in the path of the Boeing 757 that crashed into the Pentagon on a sunny fall morning. He was walking over to talk to a co-worker in the next cubicle when he was knocked down by the impact. "I saw a fireball come over my head," said Correa, an Active Guard Reservist now assigned to Joint Chiefs of Staff, J-5. "The fireball was coming like a wind-cloud of smoke trailing it. I also noticed to my right the windows going out and coming back in. The fireball came in and out quick - the speed of lightning. As it went back, it left a cloud of smoke and started dropping. At that time the fire system went up." Being knocked down turned out to be a life-saver. (...) "We thought it was some kind of explosion. That somehow someone got in here and planted bombs because we saw these holes." http://www.army.mil/usar/news/2002/09-11anniv/herotellsall.html
Creed, Dan	He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," Creed recalls. http://www.ahwatukee.com/afn/community/articles/020906a.html
Damoose	Damoose said the worst part was leaving the Pentagon and walking along Fort Meyer Drive, a bike trail, "you could see pieces of the plane." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Dave	Near the Lincoln Memorial, Dave heard two booms, which sounded like the artillery salutes on the Mall on the Fourth of July, he said. It was likely the noise from a secondary blast at the Pentagon - http://www.gridlockmag.com/911/
Day Wayne T.	For one employee with Wedge One's mechanical subcontractor John J. Kirlin Inc., Rockville MD, "lucky" is an understatement. "We had one guy who was standing, looking out the window and saw the plane when it was coming in. He was in front of one of the blast-resistant windows," says Kirlin President Wayne T. Day, who believes the window structure saved the man's life. According to Matt Hahr, Kirlin's senior project manager at the Pentagon, the employee "was thrown about 80 ft down the hall through the air. As he was traveling through the air, he says the ceiling was coming down from the concussion. He got thrown into a closet, the door slammed shut and the fireball went past him," recounts Hahr. "Jet fuel was on him and it irritated his eyes, but he didn't get burned. Then the fireball blew over and the sprinklers came on, and he was able to crawl out of the closet and get out of the building through the courtyard." http://www.designbuildmag.com/oct2001/pentagon1001.asp
DeChiaro, Steve	Instead of following the streams of people away from the Pentagon, Steve DeChiaro ran toward the smoke. As he reached the west side of the building he saw a light post bent in half. "But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing." He followed the emergency crews that had just arrived. He saw people hanging out of windows and others crawling from the demolished area. "These people were covered in what I thought was powder - I don't know anything about medicine or first aid, I'm an engineer - but it looked like powder," DeChiaro said. "Only later did I find out that it was their skin." Civilians and soldiers joined emergency crews who were rushing inside to pull out anyone they could. But shortly after 10 a.m. police yelled at people to get back. "Just as we're about to open the door, they start screaming, 'There's another inbound plane', " DeChiaro said. "At that moment, your thoughts are: 'I go in the building, I get killed, then I'm no help to anybody.' In hindsight, I think we should have gone back in that building." For nearly 15 minutes, they stood watching the Pentagon burn and periodically checked the sky for another plane. That plane never reached Washington but fell, instead, in rural Pennsylvania. Teams of two and three eventually were sent back in to find more victims. But as the day grew longer, the flow of the injured stopped. http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/america_at_war/article/0,1426,MCA_945_1300676,00.html
Defina	"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExclusive/Exclusive_11_01_01/exclusive_11.01.01.asp
DiPaula, Michael	Michael DiPaula 41, project coordinator Pentagon Renovation Team - He left a meeting in the Pentagon just minutes before the crash, looking for an electrician who didn't show, in a construction trailer less than 75 feet away. "Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. 'It sounded like a missile,' DiPaula recalls . . . Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing, but eventually crawled from the flaming debris and the shroud of black smoke unscathed. http://www.sunspot.net/search/bal-archive-1990.htmlstory (killtown)
Dobbs, Mike	Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091201_news_dcscene.shtml
Dobbs, Mike	"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. ... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Sept. 13, 2001 - Philip Dine http://web.lexisnexis.com ... http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/dobbs.txt

 

[h4]Extraits de Guillaume Dasquié & Jean Guisnel, L’Effroyable mensonge. Thèse et foutaises sur les attentats du 11 septembre, La Découverte, 2002.[/h4]

Pour nous forger une opinion, nous avons réalisé le travail soigneusement évité par l’auteur de L’effroyable imposture (Thierry Meyssan – NDLR) : une prise de contact directe et personnelle avec des témoins, sans intermédiaire, c’est-à-dire des entretiens avec les personnes les plus proches de l’origine de l’information.

 

Premier constat : nous n’avons identifié aucune personne, s’exprimant en son nom propre ou sous le sceau de l’anonymat, qui déclare avoir vu un missile ou tout autre explosif provoquer la déflagration contre la façade du Pentagone. Second constat : nous avons pu constituer une première liste de témoins oculaires affirmant qu’un Boeing s’est bien précipité contre le Pentagone ce 11 septembre au matin. Nos contacts personnels à Washington, la consultation de la presse locale écrite et télévisée des 11 et 12 septembre ont permis en l’espace de trois jours de répertorier dix-huit personnes, vivant dans la région d’Arlington ou à Washington, et facilement joignables en consultant les annuaires locaux. Il s’agit des personnes suivantes, qui décrivent toutes, avec de nombreuses similitudes, la trajectoire de l’avion avant l’impact contre le Pentagone :

 

- Alfred Regnery, arrivé en voiture depuis le pont sur la rivière Potomac ;

- Allen Cleveland, piéton sortant du métro ;

- D. S. Khavkin : elle et son mari vivent au huitième étage d’un immeuble qui fait face au Pentagone ; depuis leur balcon, ils ont assisté aux derniers instants du vol du Boeing sur le bâtiment ;

- Paul Coleridge, qui se trouvait sur le Wilson Bridge quand il a vu l’avion ;

- Pam Bradley, automobiliste ;

- Joel Sucherman, journaliste, piéton ;

- Fred Gaskins, automobiliste ;

- Aydan Kizildrgli, piéton ;

- Omar Campo, piéton, employé à l’entretien des pelouses, a vu l’avion passer au-dessus de sa tête et heurter le Pentagone ;

- Afework Ragos, automobiliste, programmateur informatique ;

- Mike Walter, piéton ;

- Tim Timmerman, automobiliste et pilote de ligne ;

- Steve Eiden, automobiliste ;

- Elaine McCusker, automobiliste, employée à l’Université de Washington ;

- Stephen McGraw, passager en voiture ;

- Steve Anderson, du journal USA Today, a assisté aux derniers instants du vol 77 depuis son bureau, au dix-neuvième étage d’une tour à Arlington ;

- James Robbins, journaliste à National Review.

 

 

John 0'Keefe fait partie de ceux-là. Ce jeune homme de vingt-six ans travaille dans l’entreprise de presse Legal Times, et coordonne le travail éditorial d’une partie des titres publiés par la société, en particulier le bimensuel Influence. Ce dernier suit l’actualité du lobbying, c’est-à-dire des groupes de pression industriels et des cabinets qui les représentent. Il consacre régulièrement des articles d’enquête aux liens entre l’administration Bush et les groupes de pression de l’industrie du pétrole ou du tabac – du vrai journalisme d’investigation, sans accusations à l’emporte-pièce et ciselé. Donc, a priori, rien qui place John O’Keefe au nombre des représentants zélés du parti républicain, de l’armée ou du complexe militaro-industriel. John 0'Keefe vit dans la ville d’Alexandria, dans l’État de Virginie, à une quinzaine de minutes en voiture d’Arlington, près de laquelle il passe chaque matin et chaque soir pour se rendre à son bureau, situé un peu plus loin, dans le quartier nord-ouest de Washington, sur M Street.

 

Voici le témoignage écrit et signé qu’il nous a livré : « Ce matin-là, comme d’habitude, je me préparais pour aller travailler tout en écoutant la radio. Peu avant 9 heures, l’animateur à la radio a annoncé qu’un avion venait de s’écraser sur le World Trade Center. À cet instant, comme beaucoup de gens je crois, j’ai d’abord cru qu’il s’agissait d’un petit appareil [de la catégorie des avions d’affaires privés très répandus aux États- Unis], mais j’ai éteint la radio pour allumer la télé sur l’émission Good Morning America [la grande émission d’information du matin diffusée sur ABC News], où j’ai découvert ce qui se passait.

 

« Je continuais à m’habiller tout en regardant la télé et là j’ai vu l’avion toucher la seconde tour. Je me souviens avoir eu le souffle coupé par le spectacle de l’explosion. L’autre chose dont je me souviens c’est que le téléphone a sonné à cet instant ; c’était une collègue, qui était au travail et s’inquiétait : “Penses-tu que nous sommes en sécurité ici ?” m’a-t-elle demandé. Je lui ai assuré que nous l’étions, lui expliquant que ça ne concernait que New York. Nous avons parlé un court instant, puis je lui ai dit que je partais pour venir au bureau. Il était 9 h 20.

 

« J’habite à environ dix-quinze minutes du Pentagone, à Alexandria, et dans mes navettes quotidiennes pour aller travailler je dois passer près de la façade ouest du bâtiment. La circulation était très ralentie sur l’autoroute ce matin-là, peut-être parce que tout le monde écoutait la radio. Pour ma part, j’écoutais la radio d’information continue WTOP. J’ai décidé de quitter l’autoroute et d’emprunter une longue bretelle menant à une route qui me permettait de contourner le Pentagone. Puis, je me souviens que je me suis arrêté à un stop. Je venais juste d’entendre à la radio que le National Airport [le Reagan National Airport, aéroport pour les lignes régulières, situé à proximité du Pentagone] venait de fermer au trafic aérien, sauf pour les vols en cours d’arrivée.

 

« Là, soudain, arrivant de mon côté gauche – j’ignore si je l’ai d’abord vu ou entendu – un avion de couleur argentée est passé [les appareils des lignes American Airlines se distinguent aisément à la partie de leur carlingue recouverte d’une peinture argentée]. Je suis habitué à voir des avions volé à basse altitude dans cette zone, car nous sommes vraiment à un mile ou deux

 

Bof bof ces témoignages ...

 

On a souvent "j'ai vu un Boeing passer", "j'ai vu ou entendu une explosion" mais que très rarement les deux à la fois.

 

De plus certaines personnes dont bien sur le témoignage n'a pas été pris en compte affirment que l'avion AA arrivait de l'autre côté du Pentagone y'a même des flics qui ont dit cela mais sans doute sont-ils des menteurs ...

 

Ce témoignage précis tiré de la citation m'intrigue:

 

Dobbs, Mike

Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archive​s/news01/091201_news_dcscene.s​html

 

Le gars dit que l'avion a percuté le Pentagone presque au ralentit ... oui oui et les dégats ils correspondent à un avion au ralenti donc ? Ca ressemble à un vrai faux témoignage cela ! Ou peut être bien que l'avion est passé juste au dessus comme d'aucun disent et que l'explosion a été déclenchée à ce moment la ...

[berlinois]

Bof bof ces témoignages ...

 

On a souvent "j'ai vu un Boeing passer", "j'ai vu ou entendu une explosion" mais que très rarement les deux à la fois.

Dis nous alors comment un bâtiment aussi costaud ait pu s'écrouler comme il l'a fait.

 

La théorie du missile entendu de ci de là est absurde, il n'existe aucun missile suffisamment puissant pour créer un tel trou. Et même dans les témoignages cités par les complôtistes ne parle que d'un missile.

Même un JDAM de 906 kg ne ferait pas de tels dégâts, sans compter que les dommages correspondent bien à une pénétration et non une explosion en surface.

 

De même, l'autre théorie fumeuse présentée pour les tours indiquant que les tours avaient fait l'objet d'une démolition contrôlée est encore plus absurde pour le pentagone.

 

Donc, encore une fois qu'est ce qui d'après toi aurait pu causer des tels dégâts si ce n'est un 767 de 100-120 tonnes à plus de 800 km/h ?

[Invité §Son171cr]

Avec des pétards par exemple.

[CaL_bE]

Bof bof ces témoignages ...

 

On a souvent "j'ai vu un Boeing passer", "j'ai vu ou entendu une explosion" mais que très rarement les deux à la fois.

 

De plus certaines personnes dont bien sur le témoignage n'a pas été pris en compte affirment que l'avion AA arrivait de l'autre côté du Pentagone y'a même des flics qui ont dit cela mais sans doute sont-ils des menteurs ...

 

Ce témoignage précis tiré de la citation m'intrigue:

 

Dobbs, Mike

Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archive​s/news01/091201_news_dcscene.s​html

 

Le gars dit que l'avion a percuté le Pentagone presque au ralentit ... oui oui et les dégats ils correspondent à un avion au ralenti donc ? Ca ressemble à un vrai faux témoignage cela ! Ou peut être bien que l'avion est passé juste au dessus comme d'aucun disent et que l'explosion a été déclenchée à ce moment la ...

 

 

Bienvenue dans la vraie vie.

Demande à des policiers comment des suspects ou véhicules peuvent être décrits de façon complètement différentes par les témoins.

 

Tout le monde ne dit pas qu'il a vu un avion percuter le Pentagne à 850 km/h. Certains ne parlent que d'une explosion et d'une boule feu, d'autres ont vu l'avion passer devant eux à haute vitesse, d'autres encore se remémorent la scène au ralenti.

 

Et bien évidement tu te focalises sur quelques témoignages, reproduisant la mécanique complotiste qui consiste à occulter sciemment la plupart d'entre eux pour ne considérer que ceux permettant de douter de la version "officielle".

[Invité §fan026bs]

[spartan44]

Bof bof ces témoignages ...

 

On a souvent "j'ai vu un Boeing passer", "j'ai vu ou entendu une explosion" mais que très rarement les deux à la fois.

 

De plus certaines personnes dont bien sur le témoignage n'a pas été pris en compte affirment que l'avion AA arrivait de l'autre côté du Pentagone y'a même des flics qui ont dit cela mais sans doute sont-ils des menteurs ...

 

Ce témoignage précis tiré de la citation m'intrigue:

 

Dobbs, Mike

Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archive​s/news01/091201_news_dcscene.s​html

 

Le gars dit que l'avion a percuté le Pentagone presque au ralentit ... oui oui et les dégats ils correspondent à un avion au ralenti donc ? Ca ressemble à un vrai faux témoignage cela ! Ou peut être bien que l'avion est passé juste au dessus comme d'aucun disent et que l'explosion a été déclenchée à ce moment la ...

 

 

Non mais franchement L'avion a redressé 10m avant de toucher le pentagone (costaud quand même quand on voit l'inertie de tels avions), est passé au dessus du pentagone sans que personne ne le voie et a disparu avec ses passagers incognito...

 

Sans compter la difficulté de placer des explosifs dans le pentagone, sûrement un des bâtiments les mieux protégés du monde, et la difficulté de placer dans les décombres des sièges, un train d'atterrissage, 2 boîtes noires,etc de l'avion et l' ADN de la quasi totalité des passagers

 

Franchement quel intérêt Autant faire directement s'écraser l'avion dans le pentagone plutôt que d'inventer des histoires de missiles, explosifs,...A moins que le gouvernement US soit particulièrement taquin et pense aux sherlock holmes en herbe (c'est le terme) en compliquant l'histoire au possible au risque de se faire choper

 

Enfin on rigole bien, c'est l'essentiel

[Invité §wrk515bx]

 

Je viens de la regarder, enfin survoler est plus juste.

Pour résumer, il énumère des attaques terroristes ou actions menées par des gouvernements pour accuser faussement d'autres parties.

 

depuis que l'on sait que ce sont les gouvernements occidentaux, nos gouvernements!, qui sont derrière les plus gros événements terroristes mondiaux

 

D'abord, je doute qu'il soir réellement prouvé que tous les faits énoncés soient bien des actes gouvernementaux.

Parce que pour lui c'est un fait établi, mais je suppose que tout le monde n'est pas d'accord sur ce point, me trompè-je ? (1)

 

Mais comme j'ai survolé la vidéo, supposons que oui.

Est-ce pour autant que tout nouvel attentat serait obligatoirement manigancé par un gouvernement ? (2) Il n'y a pas de véritables terroristes en somme ? (3)

Et je suppose donc que les attentats à Madrid en 2004 et à Londres en 2005 sont aussi un complot des gouvernements UK, espagnol ou US ?(4)

 

Pour conclure, ton opinion est clairement orientée, la mienne l'est beaucoup moins, et je pense aussi avoir de meilleures connaissances scientifiques et un meilleur sens physique que toi de par ma formation, notamment en résistance des matériaux.

Mais je te l'accorde, cela ne signifie pas que l'explication la plus plausible à mes yeux soit la bonne.(5)

 

 

1- tu ne trompes pas. Et ? A qui se refere t on pour savoir quels attentats sont fait par des états ? Tu connais un expert en faux drapeau ? Ou bien peut etre qu'on peut se pointer chez nos "autorités" et tout simplement leur demander quels attentats sous faux drapeau ils ont réalisé par le passé et ils vont admettre bien volontiers toutes les saloperies qu'ils ont fait ?

 

Je ne pense pas, mais tu peux essayer.

 

 

Plus sérieusement, j'aimerai savoir par qui un acte terrorisme doit être reconnu pour devenir un "acte terrorisme d'état".

 

 

2- non. A partir de la, peux tu me dire comment différencié un acte terroriste d'état des autres ?

 

3- aux USA, non. C'est le FBI qui les crée pour entretenir le "projet" concrétisé grace au 11 septembre.

 

http://www.lemonde.fr/amerique [...] _3222.html

 

Le FBI a « encouragé, poussé et parfois même payé » des musulmans américains pour les inciter à commettre des attentats, au cours d'opérations de filature montées de toutes pièces. C'est la conclusion d'un rapport de l'ONG Human Rights Watch publié lundi 21 juillet.

Dans nombre des plus de 500 affaires de terrorisme conduites par les tribunaux américains depuis le 11 septembre 2001, « le ministère américain de la justice et le FBI ont ciblé des musulmans américains dans des opérations clandestines de contre-terrorisme abusives, fondées sur l'appartenance religieuse et ethnique », dénonce ce rapport étayé de nombreux exemples.

 

j'imagine, je me trompe peut être, que c'est "partout" pareil. On utilise des gens, qui majoritairement n'en ont pas conscience, pour des interets geopolitique et de politique intérieur, il faut avoir un ennemi bien visible pour tenir les chiens en laisse.

 

4) je sais pas, mais j'imagine que oui. pour autant, ce n'est pas le sujet.

 

5) pour ta "conclusion" :

 

- en quoi ton "opinion" n'est pas orientée ?

- en quoi tes "meilleures connaissances scientifiques et un meilleur sens physique que moi de par ta formation, notamment en résistance des matériaux." t'aide a comprendre la géopolitique et reconnaitre un attentat sous faux drapeau ? Bon cet argument m'a beaucoup fait rire, merci.

 

[Invité §wrk515bx]

 

 

 

très belle illustration

 

 

 

dans le même genre, costume pour enfant

 

 

http://oumma.com/sites/default/files/enfant_11_septembre.png

 

"en février 2013, lors d'une fête religieuse, une famille israélienne avait habillé des enfants en tours embrasées du World Trade Center."

 

 

la petite phrase marquante de netanyauh :

 

http://www.panamza.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/nyt911-1024x297.png

[SV_DIDIER]

 

 

Très intéressant ce dessin. Enfin, surtout intéressant dans la mesure ou il est publié non pas dans un journal palestinien mais bien dans un journal israelien....

 

On imagine la même chose dans un journal palestinien

[SV_DIDIER]

 

 

très belle illustration

 

 

 

dans le même genre, costume pour enfant

 

 

http://oumma.com/sites/default [...] tembre.png

 

"en février 2013, lors d'une fête religieuse, une famille israélienne avait habillé des enfants en tours embrasées du World Trade Center."

 

 

la petite phrase marquante de netanyauh :

 

http://www.panamza.com/wp-cont [...] 24x297.png

 

 

Tu ne parles pas de l'influence néfaste des juifs dans ton topic sur l'alimentation, c'est un oubli ?

[Invité §wrk515bx]

 

Très intéressant ce dessin. Enfin, surtout intéressant dans la mesure ou il est publié non pas dans un journal palestinien mais bien dans un journal israelien....

 

On imagine la même chose dans un journal palestinien

 

 

 

ah oui très interessant que ca ai été publié dans un journal israelien !

 

 

très rélévateur la réponse de la société israelienne et americaine a cette publciation

 

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014 [...] .html?_r=0

 

La Ligue anti-diffamation (ADL) -une ONG américaine dirigée par l'ultra-sioniste Abraham Foxman- a demandé à Haaretz des "excuses publiques" et le "retrait" du dessin.

 

http://www.adl.org/press-cente [...] rtoon.html

 

 

 

 

tiens d'ailleurs tiré du même journal qui a publié cette caricature :

 

http://www.panamza.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/bn2008.jpeg

 

en 2008

 

"netanyahu affirme que l'attaque terroriste du 11/9 a été bonne pour Israel"